Roumors are, that the Headtracker actually was developed by inreal Technologies,
but I guess I'll have to wait till tuesday on the CeBIT to get first hand info...

The engadget video makes the headset appealing... if you forget the resolution and FOV.

At least they are showing a real interest in VR, but the spec and price just aren't there.

€650 + €100 for the tracker!!! That's almost a thousand US dollars!! What are they smoking!?!??!

The tracker seems to be interesting, i read somewhere else that its connected over USB and uses mouse movement. As its a very small and probably lightweight clipon device, and is sold seperately for around 100€ "only" maybe a real alternative pairing it with a HMZ.

2 years ago the Zeiss would have been a great device, but know offering that resolution and 30° FOV for 650€ is ignoring what the others are doing. The picture quality is maybe very good, but it's not even an upgrade in immersion for the 37" TV at the end of my bed in the dormitory. In my opinion a FOV over 40° is the minimal requirement for immersion.

For business travellers who often sit hours in trains and aeroplanes, or richkids on their car backseats it's mabe a nice to have accessoire for watching movies. And for the highend FPV folks maybe as replacement for Fatshark & co.

For multi hobby people like me who would use it mainly stationary, who have to spend their hobby budget wisely there is no budget left for mispurchasing.

If my hobby budget would be only dedicated to VR i would buy them all tbh

I'm still finding the "30 degree FOV" figure hard to believe.

The older model (the Cinemizer Plus) had an FOV of 32 degrees - same as the Vuzix 920. It's incredible that their new model would be a step down from the old one.

When you consider that the OLED display is 16:9, and the older model was 4:3, that means that the 30 degree display is going to be a lot smaller. Something strange is going on here.

The only think I can think of that comes close to explaining this, is that they are going for the high end FPV market exclusively. That would explain the resolution of the screens (FPV cameras can't really use more), the form factor, the head tracker, and the fact that includes AV in. Actually, thinking about it, since a set of FPV AIO goggles go for about $450-500, these arn't THAT much of a stretch more for those who want top gear to pay for. And when you have a $2000 FPV setup, a few hundred dollars extra for the top FPV goggles isn't a massive stretch.

The FOV on one of the most recent Fatshark FPV goggles was really low as well, 32 degrees I think. So maybe they think that FPV people want that. There is a debate amongst RC folks as to whether high FOV (immersion) or high resolution (clarity) is more important.

If they were going for FPV folks however, i question why they haven't included a RC compatible output on the headtracker out of the box.

That makes sense, except for the HDMI 3D input.
They've added frame-packing 3D through HDMI, which is presumably intended for Blu Ray and Game use, so they can't be thinking exclusively of the FPV market.
That's another point I noticed, by the way: they make no mention of side-by-side or over-under 3D, which would severely limit its use as a 3D viewer (the ST1080 has the same drawback). The old Cinemizer had side-by-side 3D.

What does FPV stand for again?

FPV= First Person View. We mount cameras and video transmitters to our R/C planes or helicopters or cars and transmit the video back to a base station that we have our video glasses hooked up to. So when we are flying for driving, its like your actually sitting in the pilots seat. Check out: http://www.rcgroups.com/video-piloting-fpv-rpv-469/

What i think is that they had 2 Models, one as it's now and another with 720p and the inbuild headtracker in the front. They could have launched it already but waited the poll before massproduction.

Result of the poll was probably that most people where FPV people who participated, beeing the group of people wich is mostly interested in this sort of devices. But that's because most people who COULD be interested in those devices do not even know that they exist and what you can do with them, a dilemma really. I see Zeiss as a very serious conservative acting company, usually OEM/ODM. They run no risks, don't spend much in propaganda as their approach is usually different.

Somehow the VR community needs to convince the hardcore gamers. For example, if somebody whith a HMD gets known due to success in an online game, many people would want to know the "material" he's using, and if it's immersive and demonstrated as useful it would make it's breakthrough from there into console market.

See it as a chain of opinion, once you convince the core people of a scene there is no limit anymore. That's he true reason why for example Apple is successfull, their image is that it is PRO hardware, because it was targeted mainly to Professional content creators who later are giving buing advice to semi pro's and so on.

In Homecinema FOV is limited to your focus view, greater than 45° would not make sense. So not ideal for our aspiration what we want VR to be if we want more massproduced devices with high FOV +45°. Gaming is where it's at

Not necessarily the hardcore games and gamers. ANY game that required VR to play and reached a mass level of popularity would work. I would have thought you were crazy ten years ago if you told me that everyone would buy a $200 game bundled with custom controllers, but look at the Guitar Hero franchise!

I just wish that Sony would spear-head this movement because they really have all the pieces just sitting there - ready to go. PlayStation + Move Camera + HMZ-T1 = very good VR gaming setup. They just need a bit of software to glue it together and a great game to make use of it.

There's not a lot of info, but this looks like it could be a great first step:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14531

@ brantlew

We'll see if the PS4 will be the game changer for Sony and VR. A while back i read somewhere that they plan to ditch their TV production to focus on other stuff...

The Guitar hero stuff is selling like sliced bread, really bananas. I can relate to the fun behind it, i'm a bit into jamming virtual instruments on a PC. Actually even thinking of buying an Ipad for that to be more flexible, there are some crazy good music apps out there, professional quality, like on PC's a few years ago. The best part of it is that tuning instruments and handling is much more intuitive, giving you less a sensation of working in front of a PC ( i sit most time in front of a PC at work )

You should check out Synthesia
http://synthesiagame.com/

Basically guitar hero for a full MIDI keyboard/piano. I suck at piano, but this thing is awesome and actually makes me sit down and practice every once in a while.

@Brentlew - Thanks for the info on Synthesia. Bought a MIDI digital piano last year just for Rock Band 3 and try to get the kids interetested in piano. Synthesia looks like the software to go for as personal piano tutor.

As for VR in PS4, the hurdle would be the pricing. Unless you are hardcore FPS, it's hard to fork out USD 1.5k for VR (PS4 - USD 500 + HMZ-T1 - USD 799 + accessories - USD 200). If you do a survey, I bet most of us that into VR are from age group of 30-50 years old as we had the financial means to get the gadget we want.

Yes the pricing is a problem. Still...1/3 of all gamers are over 30 so that is a pretty big chunk of the pie.

I highly recommend Synthesia - and go ahead and pay for the full product because the value-added features are really worth it. It automatically slows and synchronizes all the accompanying instruments to your finger speed so you can play as slow and terrible as possible with full band accompaniment. Sooo much better than normal solo practicing.

Oh, and it can also control the instruments programmed into your keyboard instead of the crappy PC midi instruments. So if you've got a decent synthesizer, it really sounds like you are playing with a symphony orchestra. Really cool.

I'm a hardcore Gamer, ranked under 100 in the world in Battlefield 3. I only played two days with my Sony HMZ, and I can tell you VR and HMD's are currently not an advantage when playing online, because of the 3D you aim slower, and because of screen size you have to move your eyes more which makes you slower, also I felt some sickness when doing extremes dives in my Little bird helicopter So I will keep playing onlone with my screen and use my HMZ for singleplayer immerse stuff..

I quit using my HMZ for online multiplayer after one round of Halo: Reach. I didn't understand what the problem was, but I suppose it was the screen size. I was playing in 2D. Why does 3D cause slower aiming? I thought having depth perception can make aiming easier. I will try going back to my HMZ. I think it's probably possible to adjust.

I play BF3 in 3D sometimes. Its funny cos you dont need to do so to have fun .... but once you turn the 3D off again, it just feels really flat and fake.
I am not as competitive on foot but with vehicle play its not really any worse. It IS a little harder to focus on people but it can also help in picking helicopters out against backgrounds etc.

RenderDevice.StereoSoldierZoomConvergeScale = 0 really improves aiming through scope, ironsight etc... WHat it does it removes the 3d completly, like in real life when you aim

Don't know how I missed this, but I totally disagree. My HTC owning friends have all gone to Samsung now. Motorola has nice build quality, but really, I dont see the difference. Its not a rock, why would you want it to be?
Your experiences with other Samsung products (made by other divisions) have nothing to do with their phones. Your friends phone has failed? Wow, I have lots of friends whose phones have failed. I also have a friend whose touch screen bit died after only a year on his HTC. So, really, I could claim exactly the same stuff, but I wouldn't, because to judge a product by one persons experience is pretty unfair. It sounds like you dont actually OWN or have owned a Samsung phone, so really your opinion is pretty much invalid.

BTW, virtually all laptops hinges fail, thats what they do. I know this, I've had lots of laptops, and used to deploy them to my company. Maybe metal unibody ones might be better... but laptops only have a 2-3 year lifespan anyway.

The features I was referring to were some of the best screens, sensitive touch screens (try some cheap brand Android phones and you will notice a big difference), and pretty much top of line hardware inside (cpu, gps, etc). I've had my Galaxy S for quite a while, never had a single issue with its hardware. My parents both have Nexus S's, absolutely no problems and they love them.

So, to put it in short, I absolutely disagree, and nothing you have said gives me the idea that you have really had enough experience with the devices to be able to judge them objectively.

Back on topic:
CyberVillain: I dont have any issues aiming with the scope in 3D, but I'll check it out anyway just to see what difference it makes.
I DO wish I could change the separation to get more popout now.

@ everyone: I used a HMZ-T1 today (actually, two of them). For those in Auckland, New Zealand, they have two on display at the Sony shop in Newmarket.
I was pretty impressed really. The form factor is TERRIBLE. My forehead felt sore after a few minutes. However, the resolution/brightness, screen size, etc, is very very nice.
I didn't have any problems with edges not being in focus or stuff like that. Also, I could easily move my head and still see both screens perfectly.

Quite tempted to get one of these now, but they are an extra $400 (another 50% of the price of the ST1080), and WILL require some serious comfort mods. Now im really torn. The screen is 16:9 compared to the Z800's, this is nicer for immersion, and the OLED displays crap over the Z800's ones (way brighter and more contrast).

Go for it! Just do the comfort mod. The problem is the pressure on the forehead that give you the headache.

I liked that I could use my glasses inside it. I'd say its the equivalent of about a 50" TV. Not VR but nice. It was VERY uncomfortable on the forehead, totally see what everyone is bitching about (and why its modded so much).

The thing is, the ST1080 claims 45 degree FOV which is the same as Sony claim for this. I've heard someone say that the HMZ measures it differently and actually has a higher FOV, but if thats the case, wouldn't they advertise it as such? Can anyone confirm or deny this either way?

I saw the HMZ advertised with 51 degree FOV. I'm going for the exit pupil in the ST1080 as well as native 1080p

Why did they move to Samsung? Because HTC was lacking behind Samsung with the inbuild technology like GPU and CPU power for a period of time, and tech is more a deciding factor for most. But not for me when looking for a smartphone.



I personally try to avoid thin plastic or feelalikes for devices i use/hold in my hand on a daily basis. That's all. For something that i hold in my hands on a daily basis and carry around i rely on solid build quality if i have the choice.

Whe have lots of phonestores where you can demo the devices in your hands. So you can make your mind up before buying anything. This and researching the www. you can get a perfect impression about what you can expect. It's not necessary to own any phone to have a opinion about it's build quality.



Maybe HTC bought their displays of samsung as they are not a display manufacturer..



No problem with my personal experience beeing invalid for others. Unfair? Why? That's life. Equally i could assume that you are biased towards Samsung because you spend money for their devices.



But not after 2 months. Well that model was famous for this problem, not mentioning the wlan problems. Google it if ou have doubts. My older ASUS eee PC i own just works fine instead and never had a problem.



Technically they offer impressive value, never had doubts about that, even said that their screens rock. Like i said repeatedly a few pages back and repeated in this post, it's the build quality and quality control in general wich puts me of. Strange that it's so hard for you to accept



There is nothing to judge, if i hold it in my hands and it feels kind of cheap and other devices feel better then that's it. Period. Just walk in any phone store and compare yourself. If it feels good enough for you and for other persons not, you can't do anything about it. People have different preferences.

@ Frogztar: Sony themselves advertise it as having 45 degree FOV. Is this an official Sony ad?

@ STRZ:
- I'll take an informed, biased opinion, over an uninformed, biased opinion, any day.

Wiredearp, I have a cheap, quick, comfort mod that one forum member has already tried and confirms makes the HMZ really comfortable. It's a fabulous headset now both visually and comfort.

I think I have to wait until the 1080 is out. I dont want to pay the extra 50% for the Sony, only to find the ST1080 is superior in most ways... so I think i'll wait till its released, and check the reviews then. Will lose me the $100 discount for preorders but I just dont feel confident with my choices currently.

I have seen some of those HMZ mods around and I believe they would fix 99% of the problems. Really, it seemed like a very nice unit.

I'm sort of leaning your way as well WiredEarp.

I'm not even a gamer and don't actually have an immediate need for these toys other than "gadgetry lust", so I'm finding it more and more difficult to justify this purchase. I would easily put a $1000 down on a unit if I felt like it was "the one" and it would be the best unit out for several years forward, but I get the feeling that there's going to be a lot of iteration in this market in the next year or two and I sort of want to see how it all shakes out.

I think I could probably wait 6-9 months to see how the ST1080 reviews, see what driver and firmware updates they have in store, and also see if Sony is planning on a revision to their unit.

@brantlew: Yeah, I'm kind of in the same boat. I'd really like to buy something, and money isn't necessarily a problem, but I don't actually need to buy anything. Over the years I've realized I just stock pile gadgets and a lot of them barely even get used. Currently I am planning on building a VR demo sort of like a proof of concept, but its probably months off. For me, having the proper software is the most important thing as standard PC games aren't really VR yet. So I will probably wait until I have my software ready before I buy anything. By that time the ST1080 should be out and maybe there will be other developments.

http://my-bud.com/mall/goods/goods_view.asp?goods=3&category=1&word=&asc=2&sorting=0&top_size=20

check this out
2d to 3d conversion
4200mah battery
100" at 4m

less than 500usd

the only bad thing is the low resolution

i wanna know the diagonal FOV this has ?
is this better than the vuzix 1200 crap ?
anybody know abt?

I just got my ST1080. I'll have a more detailed review later, but for now I'll say:
1. The ST1080 is currently the best consumer HMD money can buy.
2. The ST1080 is not very good.

I just tried my ST1080 and agree it's not very good. I think the HMZ is the best consumer HMD, though. It can be modded to be comfortable. The ST1080 is comfortable, but can't be modded to have a better display.

It seems you can now order the cinemizer for the astonishing price of 649 euros. The resolution is a disappointing 870x500 but could it be possible that the lenses Zeiss have used might make up for that lower resolution? It's certainly very adjustable with both IP and independent focusing adjustments. The FoV is 30 degrees, so not much off the ST1080.

I have to disagree. The difference between 30 degrees and 45 degrees is very significant.

My mistake I, for some reason, had it in my head that the ST1080 had a FoV of 35 degrees.

What is good about the HMZ FOV that this area is what both eyes can actually see in 3D at the same time. If you have more than that you don't see 3D anymore cause the respective other eye cannot see it anymore.

Sorry but 30 degrees is a joke in 2012. Hopefully they can step up their game with future models, but this just won't cut it for VR or gaming purposes.