Ultimate BF3 simulator

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WiredEarp
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Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by WiredEarp »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQR49JGy ... e=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Came across this on reddit. Sounds like they have paintball guns that shoot the user when he gets shot - that could be kind of immersive! :)

I do like the fact they have implemented what I had only thought of previously and hadn't actually seen video of. Looks like they have the projector(s) in a dome, on a swivel, so they turn to follow the users head. This means all you need for a 'CAVE' type setup, is just the projectors, a room, and a very fast panning system, as wherever you look, it is putting the projected image. Way better than CAVE setups in some ways (kind of combining with HMD's benefits) as you dont have to render views (for example, behind the user) that the viewer can't see... less projector bulbs to replace as well!
mAchiNE
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by mAchiNE »

Wow that looks awesome!
Playing on that you would either get really good really quick, or get realy sore after a few hours of gaming!
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Okta
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by Okta »

That omni treadmill is an awesome new method i havent seen before. Will add a link to this thread from the other one regarding this...
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fireslayer26
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by fireslayer26 »

The Holodeck version 1.0!!!
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cybereality
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by cybereality »

I almost wet my pants until I realized it wasn't 3D. FAIL!

On a more serious note, though, stuff like this makes me think VR actually is making a comeback. For real!!!
PalmerTech
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by PalmerTech »

Oh wow, you are right! That sucks. :-/

I see so many problems with this, though. One of the reasons a CAVE is so immersive is because there is absolutely no lag when moving around to look at the image. There is not much video to go on, but there is almost certainly noticeable lag between his movement, the tracking, and the projector rotating to match.

Why did they do it this way instead of just rendering/projecting a 360 view? This leads to my second problem: The field of view is WAY off. Looks like it is set to a standard-ish 75 degrees or so, and that screen has got to be at least 120. I mean, look how absurdly huge the gun on the screen is! :roll:

I mean, this is really cool, and definitely better than 99% of any gaming setups I can imagine. And on top of that, it will expose a lot of people to VR, and probably get them really fired up over the idea! But they really missed the mark in terms of realism, just so they could shoehorn the experience into a modern game that will get a lot of hype. Full 360 projectors/rendering with realistic FOV and 3D would have been much better, and they could have done it if they were willing to use a custom game engine, or at least a commercial engine with lots of modding support, like Source.
mAchiNE
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by mAchiNE »

PalmerTech wrote:I mean, this is really cool, and definitely better than 99% of any gaming setups I can imagine. And on top of that, it will expose a lot of people to VR, and probably get them really fired up over the idea! But they really missed the mark in terms of realism, just so they could shoehorn the experience into a modern game that will get a lot of hype. Full 360 projectors/rendering with realistic FOV and 3D would have been much better, and they could have done it if they were willing to use a custom game engine, or at least a commercial engine with lots of modding support, like Source.
I Agree but if they used a custom game engine then the system would not get nearly as much exposure as it will, the main reason this will get hyped is because it is BATTLEFIELD 3, possibly the best FPS game to be released in 2011
Also while there are flaws in their system I think only people like us here at MTBS3D will notice those flaws, joe public who plays FPS on a console or PC with standard KB/Mouse setup will have their mind blown by a system like this!
Also I can think of one plus ot it not being 3D, all the dumb ass 3D hating reviewers might actually like this.

In any case I think pairing a system like this with a major game title is great for getting VR exposure to the masses and showing people what is possible, might mean that some VR type PC accessories might get higher adoption because of people seeing systems like this one, and MAYBE even developers might start to take notice! (well we can dream at least!)
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cybereality
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by cybereality »

@mAchiNE: I agree. The main thing is that it gets exposure, and the regular gaming public probably doesn't care if its not 3D, or if the FOV isn't physically accurate. Would love if more developers cared about stuff like this. I mean, there has been some progress. Games like Deus Ex supported native 3D and Eyefinity out the gate (now 3D Vision and 3DVS). Would love it if devs would support stuff like the Novint Falcon, Razer Hydra, 3rd Space Vest, etc. but I'm not holding my breath.

The sad part is that as a hobbyist, I have whipped up quick demos (like with the Hydra) in a couple of days. A team of professional developers could probably add this to their game in a matter of hours. Its not a lot of work. If there was some incentive to cultivate these type of VR experiences, I'm sure it would not be a technical issue.

But, for the foreseeable future, we will probably have to hack things together ourselves and build something custom. There are just too many moving parts for this to be an all-in-one solution, and too far away from the technology that would make this accessible and mainstream. But it seems things are moving in the right direction, and thats about all we can hope for.
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by mAchiNE »

Yeah I guess the problem is developers can't support every device out there so they will only ever support major devices directly, what is really needed is some sort of standard for these things, i.e. some sort of standardised VR output SDK that Developers can easily add to their game engines that would include things like specific damage, haptic and FFB information, possibly camera options for seperate headtracking/aiming etc, then Hardware Developers making VR type gaming devices can just tap into that SDK and get the information they need for their device.
It would mean any game engine with this standard built in can support any device that is designed to that standard, all the Hardware guys need to do is write a Driver that decodes that info for thier device instead of having to manually add driver support for each new game that comes out.

I think it would be a win win as the hardware guys get plenty of software support and the game developers games are automatically supporting a wide range of input/output gaming accessories! :D

Kind of like what the HDMI1.4a standard has done for 3D displays
Last edited by mAchiNE on Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Current System:
Oculus Rift Dev Kit, 3x 23" Passive 3D Monitors in 3D Vision Surround, Novint Falcon, 3rd Space Gaming Vest, ButtKicker, Razer Hydra, Logitech G25.
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Viewsonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector, Vuzix VR920, 24" Alienware and 22" Samsung 3D Vision Monitors, eDimensional 3D Glasses with 19" CRT Monitor
WiredEarp
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by WiredEarp »

I agree re the FOV etc, but I can see that it would be less horsepower to power a system which didn't have to also render all the views in the directions the user ISN'T facing.

That said, I much prefer this CAVE type environment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQeHPnMC ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I haven't used a CAVE setup, but I think having the floor projection would help immersion significantly, as opposed to this system where its really just a screen at the end of the room. I guess this would be difficult to combine with the treadmill however...
mAchiNE
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by mAchiNE »

this battlefield 3 "simulator" is certianly getting a lot of attention!, I have had it emailed to me by 2 of my friends already! (who BTW are just into regular gaming and not VR enthusiasts)
Current System:
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Viewsonic PJD6531w 3D DLP Projector, Vuzix VR920, 24" Alienware and 22" Samsung 3D Vision Monitors, eDimensional 3D Glasses with 19" CRT Monitor
WiredEarp
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by WiredEarp »

@ Machine: I like your idea about the interface standard. It would be a bit like SimConnect for FSX, but open source, or like VRPN, but going the other direction. Definitely this will be in the future of gaming etc...
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cybereality
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by cybereality »

@mAchiNE: Yes, a standard like that would be great but it seems very far from happening any time soon. If it were implemented like that I don't think it would be difficult for developers and if VR-style peripheral devices got more popular then there would be financial incentive to do this. But it goes back to the chicken-egg problem: people don't buy these "weird" devices because they don't have software support, and developers don't bother supporting a small niche market.
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by lllJameslll »

Apparently they had something like that in Plymouth city center here in the UK last week. My mate came back from town and said there was somthing were you stand in a room and play a vr battlefield 3. He didnt know much about it and didnt sell it well to me, I was stuck doing my dissertation work and he thought the bloke said it would be there till the 28th so I didnt go. Popped into town the other day to have a look and it wasnt there, figured the bloke said the game is released on the 28th and my mate miss herd him. After seeing this I think it was the set up in the video and now im gutted I didnt get to try it.

@mAchiNE I agree that would be a good idea, if you could design a versatile peice of software that could be integrated into games it would be a big leap forward, I mean half the games that come out that are suppose to support even a standard 360 pad dont work properly, ironically some of these games were just ported from the 360 aswell, so something that developers could simply link into that covered most input devices would be great for both the makers and users alike.

@ WiredEarp I liked that video not just because of the setup but more for the blokes reactions, firstly at the railing then more so when he goes to walk down the stairs then they move the ground under him. lol

I hope there is a day in the not so distant future were I can be playing a FPS on somthing like these set ups in my house. For the next year or 2 the hmz t1 will have to do for me, not that that is going to be a bad thing, but no matter what I get Im always dreaming of the future, why can I never be content.
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by Synexious »

Can someone in the UK please record this and post it to YouTube, preferably in HD?
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by PalmerTech »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... g8Bh5iI2WY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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cybereality
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by cybereality »

Well that's basically it right there (sans the 3D glasses). We can just kill the conversation and start saving some serious $$$$.
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by pierreye »

Basically that's the ultimate solution for movement but I would prefer HMD. Need serious $$$ and space though.
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by Synexious »

How much do these cost? Is this better than the usual chainbelt omnidirectional treadmill design? The advantage the MSE Weibull system has is there is no problem with inertia as with chainbelt ODTs, so perhaps it is better. But it looks like the range of motion is more limited with the MSE - how can you turn at a right angle and keep walking?

I think the ultimate DIY home solution is either something like this, or a ball carpet, either with balls driven by a treadmill underneath, as with the CyberCarpet, or a bed of small ball bearings. The ball bearing carpet would cost around $10,000 for 4000 bearings, which is very small. The CyberCarpet has 4000 balls and is barely big enough. Perhaps a large CyberCarpet with treadmill-driven balls could be built for $5,000 or less. Loose balls would be very cheap, I assume, much cheaper than ball bearings, and then you'd just drive them with a rotating treadmill underneath. The only problem would be preventing popout. The solution would be a top layer with holes just slightly smaller than the diameter of the balls.

The truly ultimate ODMiP system would be two Novint Falcon-style robotic arms, one attached to each foot. This would allow any terrain and elevation to be simulated. But to support one's full body weight would cost alot of money and alot of work would have to be done to keep it safe.
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

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The ball carpet seems like an unproven technology to me. We've seen only a couple of very limited demos - small robot making some turns and a man walking in one direction. $10,000 is a lot of money to invest on something that unproven.

The BF3 floor looks like a pretty good solution. The walking motion looks a little bit unstable because of the inertial effects of the rollers, but no more so than the chainbelt omni-tread. And it looks an order of magnitude simpler to build than one of those big systems. If I was going to put $10K on something, I would choose it instead because at least we have proof that it actually works.

How can the user turn 90 degrees? We discussed the mechanics of this device on the other thread and this is how I understood it...

"If you walk forward you move onto the north roller and it matches your speed. Then you turn 90 degrees clockwise and continue walking. At this point the software will try to guide you onto the east roller. It allows you to walk eastward but gently nudges you south just enough to get you onto the east roller."
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by Synexious »

Oh yeah, so someone needs to write software for it, unless we could purchase it from MSE Weibull, which is unlikely. I'm sure the ball carpet would work as long as the balls could be kept from popping out. I'm starting to think I'll return to my original idea of using a manual treadmill. As Cyber pointed out, then everything would be 100% plug and play. The feeling of walking plus the feeling of turning the head would be the best practical solution, I think. You can walk and look around. You just can't turn your whole body. So I can buy a manual treadmill for $100, get an Asus WAVI and have full turning while stationary, and maybe build some rollershoe dish later for maybe $500 if I want.
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by brantlew »

@Aphro: The treadmill sounds like a very reasonable and low risk route to take for now. You should consider tying a flexible cord around your waist and attaching it to a pole behind you to help get the treadmill going and avoid having to brace with your hands. (see the video of the treadmill sprinter on the other thread)

I bought a Kinect last week and plan on doing some investigation into body control mechanisms using the Kinect SDK. I think torso twisting on a standard treadmill could become very natural for turning as well, but I would like to try a variety of schemes. Don't know when it would be ready but I will keep you posted. (Just got a bunch of toys in the last 4 days including a 3D webcam, a Vuzix 920VR, and the Kinect so I can't decide what to play with first. :) )
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Re: Ultimate BF3 simulator

Post by WiredEarp »

That floor from the BF3 simulator does seem pretty cool. You could have it stop if you were moving quickly or jumping, so you'd have a stable surface to land on. It wouldn't require force feedback or anything like that. I think it would be superior to ball carpet systems. I can see issues with feel when moving quickly (it will all feel 'accelerated') but whether that is bad will be seen. Could make for some AWESOME workout games :). Would be very expensive but doable for hobbyist I think.

Oh, I also thought the 'motorized shoes' was promising for a home tech. Would cost a lot less. You'd need good strong motors and probably some type of system to not only do forward backwards, but incorporate strafing as well, for its use outside the lab. Use a ceiling camera to watch your location and attempt to keep you in the centre.
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