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It is currently Thu May 23, 2013 5:01 am
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pierreye
Sharp Eyed Eagle!
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:45 pm Posts: 373
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Didn't measure the current but based on the specs, 15w = 5v x 3amp. So I assume 3A is the max.
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| Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:19 am |
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CyberVillain
Terrif-eying the Ladies!
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:36 am Posts: 947 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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pierreye wrote: Didn't measure the current but based on the specs, 15w = 5v x 3amp. So I assume 3A is the max. 15 Watts is on the 220 side, some is lost in the AC-DC so its probably little less then that... Let me know how it works out, might get one if it works, the one I linked to is tested by lots of people in the FPV scene so i know it will work well
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| Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:12 am |
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cybereality
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:18 pm Posts: 10038
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So I finally bit the bullet and ordered the HMZ. Got overnight shipping, so it should be here on Wednesday. Very looking forward to this.
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| Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:50 pm |
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brantlew
Petrif-Eyed
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:23 pm Posts: 2038 Location: Irvine, CA
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Cool. Good luck.
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| Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:27 pm |
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CyberVillain
Terrif-eying the Ladies!
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:36 am Posts: 947 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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cybereality wrote: So I finally bit the bullet and ordered the HMZ. Got overnight shipping, so it should be here on Wednesday. Very looking forward to this. Nice! After some modding I think this product can be really good!
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| Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:34 am |
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WiredEarp
Certif-Eyable!
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:47 pm Posts: 1172
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Nice, I think you'll be very happy with it (once the mods are done that is!). I was very impressed by the picture quality.
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| Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:58 am |
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pierreye
Sharp Eyed Eagle!
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:45 pm Posts: 373
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Good choice. I would get ready all the necessary items for the mod.
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| Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:46 am |
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matrix961
One Eyed Hopeful
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:17 am Posts: 8
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cybereality wrote: So I finally bit the bullet and ordered the HMZ. Got overnight shipping, so it should be here on Wednesday. Very looking forward to this. You definitely won't be disappointed. Just take your time when deciding on how you will mod it. I would recommend starting simple and get it all fitted out of the box. This helped me figure out which mods would work the best based on my head size etc. Your comfort mod might vary depending on yours as well. I think I’ve spent a total of 4-5 hours here and there to find what works best for me. I’ve tented to stay with the most minimal velcro mods based on what mayaman came up with. Since my forehead tends to sweat causing the lenses to fog at times I stayed away from other mods. I’m also looking into possibly mounting a micro blower fan to help reduce moisture build up. I’ve actually found tiny blower fans as small as 9x9x3mm. I just need to figure out if it would provide enough air flow in the right area to work well. I’ve had this issue with my other headsets as well.
_________________ HMD's: VFX1, HeadPlay, HMZ-T1
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| Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:12 am |
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CyberVillain
Terrif-eying the Ladies!
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:36 am Posts: 947 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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matrix961 wrote: cybereality wrote: So I finally bit the bullet and ordered the HMZ. Got overnight shipping, so it should be here on Wednesday. Very looking forward to this. You definitely won't be disappointed. Just take your time when deciding on how you will mod it. I would recommend starting simple and get it all fitted out of the box. This helped me figure out which mods would work the best based on my head size etc. Your comfort mod might vary depending on yours as well. I think I’ve spent a total of 4-5 hours here and there to find what works best for me. I’ve tented to stay with the most minimal velcro mods based on what mayaman came up with. Since my forehead tends to sweat causing the lenses to fog at times I stayed away from other mods. I’m also looking into possibly mounting a micro blower fan to help reduce moisture build up. I’ve actually found tiny blower fans as small as 9x9x3mm. I just need to figure out if it would provide enough air flow in the right area to work well. I’ve had this issue with my other headsets as well. Nice thinking, this could be a really big problem for my upcoming Skigoggles mod, migh have to get a fan for mine too :/
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| Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:40 am |
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matrix961
One Eyed Hopeful
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:17 am Posts: 8
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CyberVillain wrote: Nice thinking, this could be a really big problem for my upcoming Skigoggles mod, migh have to get a fan for mine too :/ I'm looking into these http://www.digikey.com/us/en/ph/Sunon/M ... iFans.htmlI just need to figure out if they will work and how to power them with a battery.
_________________ HMD's: VFX1, HeadPlay, HMZ-T1
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| Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:57 am |
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CyberVillain
Terrif-eying the Ladies!
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:36 am Posts: 947 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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matrix961 wrote: CyberVillain wrote: Nice thinking, this could be a really big problem for my upcoming Skigoggles mod, migh have to get a fan for mine too :/ I'm looking into these http://www.digikey.com/us/en/ph/Sunon/M ... iFans.htmlI just need to figure out if they will work and how to power them with a battery. They are on 3Volts so if you connect two serial they will get ~2.5 volts each if you power them from the interal 5 volts on the HMZ
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| Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:17 am |
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brantlew
Petrif-Eyed
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:23 pm Posts: 2038 Location: Irvine, CA
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This company makes some fantastic "drop-in" components for adjustable voltages. I believe you could use this little component for stepping down to the voltage you need. http://www.dimensionengineering.com/DE-SWADJ.htm
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| Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:55 am |
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mayaman
Cross Eyed!
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:44 am Posts: 193 Location: Connecticut
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Guys, if you use my mod and add Velcro to the back rubber strap in three pieces, in other words two on the side and one in the middle, your able to stretch it nicely and it fits perfect because the Velcro grips your head. Give it a try as it moves the headset nice and close.
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| Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:50 pm |
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SDM
One Eyed Hopeful
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:30 am Posts: 17 Location: MI
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I returned my original HMZ due to comfort/fit/focus issues, but decided to grab another as I felt like seeing if I could make it conform to my needs. Stock head phones had to go, focus and fit issues had to be addressed, so I just tore the thing apart from day 1 this time. Wanted to see if ski goggles could work, grabbed a cheap (but fairly rigid with a heft strap) pair from amazon, and put the theory to the test as you can see below (forgive my ugly mug there). HMZ bits are not connected to headphones in any way, both are separate, goggle visor was dremeled out as needed, an aluminum plate was attached to existing holes on the remaining bits of the HMZ, 3 tabs are bent up from that plate to secure/bolt it to the remaining goggle visor. Some spacers are added to allow for adjusting eye to lens distance/tilt/etc... Foam you see on the sides there added so I can adjust IPD without light getting in. Locking gear removed, HDMI cable is attached to side of goggles strap on left side for strain relief. Can't see from this pic, but cut away a bit of the visor below the eyepieces so I can see under it a bit (to see keyboard or such). Just covered visor with electrical tape to black out things for now.
Will likely will redo things in a more "professional" looking way, at the least add a light weight cover, but was really just an experiment to see how much I could improve the HMZ to meet my needs. The results are hard to beat (for me) though as it is now, may just leave it be. Comfort issues are completely gone, focus good every time, no fiddling required. Thing stays put, no worries of you/it moving a mm or two and losing focus.
Any way, just thought I throw this out there in case anyone was wondering about such a mod, how it can actually work out. Hope somebody finds it helpful, or inspires better ideas. For me, it makes the HMZ something I'll definitely be keeping this time around, night and day difference. Everything is reversible by the way, could be put right back to stock, but no chance I'll be doing that -unless perhaps I sell it when the st1080 arrives (preordered one of those when the sale was on).
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_________________ -Steve
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| Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:26 am |
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brantlew
Petrif-Eyed
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:23 pm Posts: 2038 Location: Irvine, CA
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Nice mod. Sucks that people have to mod this thing so much just to make it acceptable.
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| Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:00 am |
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CyberVillain
Terrif-eying the Ladies!
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:36 am Posts: 947 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Im about todo this, more pics, more pics!  So its possible to remove the entire casing, the other dude on youtube left the boittom part, this is good because my nose is a bit big and i have to press the noserest on my nose to get focus.. edit: by the way, dont reverse it if you sell it, probably get more money for it this way 
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| Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:30 am |
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mayaman
Cross Eyed!
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:44 am Posts: 193 Location: Connecticut
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How much weight is removed?
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| Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:25 am |
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space123321
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:29 pm Posts: 236
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I second that - more pics - more pics!!!
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| Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:10 am |
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cybereality
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:18 pm Posts: 10038
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@SDM: Nice mod.
So I finally got my HMZ. Thing looks even better than I expected (even though I tried it already in the store). Sound quality blows, and there were some comfort issues, but overall its a really nice product. I really can't believe how far we've come in just a few short months since I reviewed the Vuzix 1200VR. The difference is night and day. Now I just have to find a good headtracker, as that really is half the experience.
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| Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:10 am |
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space123321
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:29 pm Posts: 236
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Glad you are pleased Cyber! Please keep us posted on the tracker of choice!
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| Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:46 am |
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3dvison
Certif-Eyed!
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:25 pm Posts: 599
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cybereality, Hope you will be doing one of your full reviews.
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| Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:26 pm |
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SDM
One Eyed Hopeful
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:30 am Posts: 17 Location: MI
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@brantlew Indeed, does bother me that I had to alter an expensive gadget like this to make it practical/wearable for me, was the reason I returned the first one. Really want the tech to succeed though, become more mainstream, there to be a "HMZ-T2" with flaws corrected, so decided to grab another if for no other reason then to try to help Sony/others to move the tech along.
@CyberVillain/mayaman/space123321 Should have taken pics while doing the mod. Thought occurred to me but didn't know if I'd be scrapping it all to redo, so unfortunately didn't take pics in the process. Camera battery dead now, but will try to show more detail on how things were done when I get the chance.
Did grab a pic of what was removed, can see below that the entire outer casing was removed. Thought briefly about keeping the two casing bits (like the guy on Youtube), but the nose slot gets in the way, it or the goggle frame would have to be cut partially away to use together. Wanted the goggle frame rigid, the HMZ case intact (in case I ever do sell it), so all of those case pieces had to go.
I did not weigh the bits removed, nor the final unit (can/will later though), but can see what's removed now in the pic below (minus all screws -except 3 original screws that were reused). Of course you have the weight of the goggles added back, a few little nuts/bolts and small aluminum plate, but the latter two of which are pretty much negligible. The aluminum plate I used was .020" I think, likely 6061-T6 scrap I had laying around (though doesn't need to be aircraft grade). Just kinda a triangle shaped piece (with forward facing tip cut off/flattened), 3 (approx 1/2") flanges bent up on the back side to drill/mount to visor. The plate hits the top middle/centered screw on the HMZ eyepiece assembly nearest your eyes, and the two screws ahead of that towards the top front (hence 3 original screws reused). Plate ends up covering the toothed gear bits for the slider mechanism. There's enough room to easily (and independently) adjust for IPD by just gripping each eyepiece using your thumbs on bottom of eyepiece casings, fingers on aluminum plate piece atop.
@cybereality Thanks, be interested to see what mods you may do to yours.
-Steve
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_________________ -Steve
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| Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:04 pm |
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cirk2
Certif-Eyed!
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 10:13 am Posts: 521
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That mod looks so incebebly geeky, I like it. Maybe you can mod it to look like this. http://xboxoz360.files.wordpress.com/20 ... xcgn-1.jpgI would like to try the HMD myselv, but Sony is on my personal blacklist.
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| Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:28 pm |
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cybereality
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:18 pm Posts: 10038
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@3dvison: Seemed kind of late to do a review, but if people want it I can whip something up.
@SDM: I'm a tad squeamish when it comes to modding $800 peripherals, but I may try some simple stuff that doesn't void the warranty.
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| Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:57 pm |
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3dvison
Certif-Eyed!
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:25 pm Posts: 599
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cybereality, You do a great job of reviewing and also the fact you have used other HMD's and Vuzix products makes you thoughts gold. I also just wanted to see what words you would use, for the gap in visual quality between the HMZ-T1 and other HMD's ?..."Night and day" was a start..LOL
OH Sh*#*, I forgot, what do you think of Fuji W3 stuff show on the Sony cyber ?
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| Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:54 pm |
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pierreye
Sharp Eyed Eagle!
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:45 pm Posts: 373
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@SDM - Cool mod. Can you take a photo on how you mount the internal of HMZ-T1 to the ski mask and the IPD adjustment knob? Since you removed the bottom pieces, how do you mount the HMZ-T1 control button to the ski mask?
@Cyber - Your opinion and review would be valuable as you had lot of experience with other HMD.
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| Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:42 pm |
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space123321
Binocular Vision CONFIRMED!
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:29 pm Posts: 236
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@SDM
Man I am sooo tempted to give this mod a shot... Any chance you could take a few pics at different angles?... I still do not fully understand how the screens are secured into the goggles. Thanks in advance!
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| Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:28 pm |
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SDM
One Eyed Hopeful
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:30 am Posts: 17 Location: MI
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To those interested in how I modded my HMZ to goggles, I can't take more pics right now as my camera battery won't hold a charge (awaiting a couple new ones), but I did draw up a rough mockup of how I was going to do things in CAD before I actually finalized/performed the final mod. So, I decided to try making a video instead with the 3D rendering there to show how I did things. Actually is much clearer to see how things were done this way than via pics. Can find the video here: my mod video Not a video editing expert, first video I've ever made lol, but hope it is clear. File is about 117Mb I think (sorry about that but wanted it clear with decent audio), never use video hosting sites so don't know how to host it on Youtube or such. Any way, f anyone downloads it, let me know there are any problems viewing it. Hope it helps. EDIT: I've done a second shorter video to add a bit more info on making things stouter for those who may need it, clarify a couple little points. Been up for about 24hrs straight now, was tired making the first video, beyond tired now, but think these two videos together cover everything. Second video (only a few minutes long): HMZ mod part 2-Steve
_________________ -Steve
Last edited by SDM on Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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| Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:11 am |
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brantlew
Petrif-Eyed
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:23 pm Posts: 2038 Location: Irvine, CA
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Thanks SDM. Somebody should post this up to youtube for easy distribution.
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| Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:41 am |
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CyberVillain
Terrif-eying the Ladies!
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:36 am Posts: 947 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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brantlew wrote: Thanks SDM. Somebody should post this up to youtube for easy distribution. I can do it tonight if SMD allow me
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| Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:47 am |
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SDM
One Eyed Hopeful
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:30 am Posts: 17 Location: MI
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CyberVillain wrote: brantlew wrote: Thanks SDM. Somebody should post this up to youtube for easy distribution. I can do it tonight if SMD allow me Info is for everyone. If anyone can/wants to put my video on Youtube or such, perfectly OK with me. Also, no big deal at all, happens a lot (especially since I tend to stick to electronic related forums were the SMD acronym is common of course), but I'm S DM rather than SMD. Probably should just change my initials lol.
_________________ -Steve
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| Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:57 am |
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CyberVillain
Terrif-eying the Ladies!
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:36 am Posts: 947 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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SDM wrote: CyberVillain wrote: brantlew wrote: Thanks SDM. Somebody should post this up to youtube for easy distribution. I can do it tonight if SMD allow me Info is for everyone. If anyone can/wants to put my video on Youtube or such, perfectly OK with me. Also, no big deal at all, happens a lot (especially since I tend to stick to electronic related forums were the SMD acronym is common of course), but I'm S DM rather than SMD. Probably should just change my initials lol. Sorry man, its the new HMD from SMD fault 
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| Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:14 am |
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SDM
One Eyed Hopeful
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:30 am Posts: 17 Location: MI
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CyberVillain wrote: Sorry man, its the new HMD from SMD fault  Ah, well that's better than being a surface mount device at least  . I've done a second shorter video to add a bit more info on making things stouter for those who may need it, clarify a couple little points. Been up for about 24hrs straight now, was tired making the first video, beyond tired now, but think these two videos together cover everything. Second video (only a few minutes long): HMZ mod part 2
_________________ -Steve
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| Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:42 am |
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CyberVillain
Terrif-eying the Ladies!
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:36 am Posts: 947 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Thanks for your work SDM, im downloading as we speak, the speed isnt that great I'm located in Sweden, so it will take a while. I'll link here when its done
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| Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:24 am |
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CyberVillain
Terrif-eying the Ladies!
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:36 am Posts: 947 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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| Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:44 am |
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cybereality
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:18 pm Posts: 10038
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Silly question: how do you get that mesh cover onto the headset? It goes on the forehead pad, right?
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| Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:51 pm |
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JohnCarmack
One Eyed Hopeful
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:21 pm Posts: 25
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At the start of the SDM HMZ Ski Goggle mod video, the connecter is called an "HDMI proprietary Sony cable". If this is actually the case, I would be Very Interested in the possibility of bypassing the main processing box and hopefully the associated latency that is being induced. While the ergonomic issues with the HMZ are well known, the more problematic aspect for me is that there is around 30 milliseconds of latency introduced between the video input signal and the OLED displays. If you have a very low latency control/display loop, it is painfully evident switching from a Z-800 to an HMZ-T1. The FOV and resolution are great, but the lag is a terrible limiting factor.
I would be interested in paying a bounty for the development of a bypass cable if someone wanted to take a shot at it.
In an ideal world, the two displays would look like a single 2560 x 720 display, but if it is HDMI I would guess that it just takes the standardized frame sequential 720P format.
John Carmack
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| Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:42 pm |
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bobv5
Certif-Eyed!
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:38 pm Posts: 500
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Hi Doom guy.
If the box is introducing latency it must be doing something. What that is I can't say, but it will likely be a major job to avoid it. It would have to be a big bounty. Big enough that your best bet is to go to Sony directy. (I hope someone can prove me wrong)
EDIT- I think that is just what he called it for the video. If it is truly just hdmi, a bypass cable would be trivial. But if it is just hdmi, the control box makes no sense. Have a look at the PR2 thread. For game immersion it is a far supierior product.
_________________ "If you have a diabolical mind, the first thing that probably came to mind is that it will make an excellent trap: how do you get off a functional omni-directional treadmill?"
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| Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:56 pm |
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JohnCarmack
One Eyed Hopeful
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:21 pm Posts: 25
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Lots of consumer devices unfortunately introduce a frame or two of latency for on screen menus and resolution scaling / format conversion. The OLED displays may well just export 1280x720, and the processing box does all the 1080P / side by side / top bottom conversions, emitting 1280x720 to the displays. That is my hope, at least...
John Carmack
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| Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:35 pm |
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PalmerTech
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:06 pm Posts: 1611
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JohnCarmack wrote: At the start of the SDM HMZ Ski Goggle mod video, the connecter is called an "HDMI proprietary Sony cable". If this is actually the case, I would be Very Interested in the possibility of bypassing the main processing box and hopefully the associated latency that is being induced. While the ergonomic issues with the HMZ are well known, the more problematic aspect for me is that there is around 30 milliseconds of latency introduced between the video input signal and the OLED displays. If you have a very low latency control/display loop, it is painfully evident switching from a Z-800 to an HMZ-T1. The FOV and resolution are great, but the lag is a terrible limiting factor.
I would be interested in paying a bounty for the development of a bypass cable if someone wanted to take a shot at it.
In an ideal world, the two displays would look like a single 2560 x 720 display, but if it is HDMI I would guess that it just takes the standardized frame sequential 720P format.
John Carmack Hi John, A bypass cable is very possible. The final stage before the proprietary Sony cables is actually a DisplayPort transmitter IC (STDP4028), and on the HMD side is a DisplayPort receiver (STDP4020), so the obvious conclusion would be that the Sony is using a modified DisplayPort link, probably with consolidated grounds. From there, it looks like the final signal conversion for the OLED panels is done by a Spartan-6 FPGA on the HMD board. It would certainly be possible to reverse engineer that link, but it would be hard. The HMD board has no vias to the other side, so the only way to trace the pins from the cable to the IC would be to remove the IC from the board, something that is hard to reverse (These ball grid soldered parts are meant to go on once and never move). From there, you could use the datasheet of the IC to match up all the different DisplayPort lines to their corresponding pins in the cable. Even then, though, there could be complications. The Sony might be expecting some funky authentication signal or handshake, and we cannot be sure what format, exactly, the HMD is expecting. Before going to all that trouble, a few things to try: 1) Have you tried changing the various image processing settings on the control box to see if they affect latency? 2) Have you compared latency between 3D and 2D modes? 3) Have you compared latency between different resolutions? Let me know if those make any difference. If not, I might be able to help you with making a bypass cable.
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| Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:42 pm |
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