It is currently Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:09 pm



Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
 Why Tridef is great for this noob 
Author Message
One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:24 pm
Posts: 3
The past week I finally broke down and bought glasses for my oldish dlp 1080p 3d tv, and thanks to tridef I got a taste of what's possible...

1 - Tridef allows people with less than amazing gpu/cpu to run games in s3d. By scaling games to the only rez my tv supports , 1080p, Tridef allows me to run games with modest hardware. True, the 3d effect is much better when games run at 1080p, but for most modern games my laptop can't even handle 1080p in 2d... (laptop with GT 130M)

2 - Tridef has a great, easy to use on screen display that makes tinkering effortless and fun. example: Prototype (which I loved, but hadn't played in years) looked like crap until I messed around and changed several things. After a few adjustments it looks so amazing that my roomie ordered another pair just so he could watch me play (umm yeah... fact that s3d Blu-ray is finally here helped some too)

3 - Tridef enables easy overscan correction; probably meaningless to other displays but makes a huge difference for my tv. I'm not sure why, but after bumping overscan up to 40 the entire s3d effect improves dramatically, and of course, I can see the entire game. (again.. via simple on screen display)

4 - Tridef consistently pumps out more fps than the other option I'm evaluating with less tearing. On lesser hardware or when pushing what you have to the limit, this is a big deal. i.e. portal, which looked like crap under the generic profile for Tridef but with a little tinkering looked amazing without the horrible tearing I experienced using another s3d driver.

5 - For games that my hardware has no chance of running in s3d, virtual 3d gives me something of true value to fall back on. i.e. mass effect - runs great at 720p in 2d, but turn on s3d and.... well, not gonna happen. Try turning down the rez (which only Tridef can do anyway) and it looks, well.... not worth playing. However, leaving at 720p with virtual 3d I see almost no drop in fps and a nice 3d effect. In fact, virtual 3d gets far more right (though blurrier) than regular Tridef s3d. Anyway.... the point is, Tridef's video 2D -> 3D video thing may be a gimmick, but the gaming virtual 3D is NOT… not when you don’t have the hardware to run what you want to run and still enjoy a nice s3d effect. It’s useful and has real value… at least for me.

I'd really like to know what others are using in terms of tv and video settings to overcome the picture quality limitations of Samsung dlp's in 3d mode. I worked at it quite a bit and am at the point where I've overcome much of the huge loss in contrast and color. (ty digital vibrance!)


Anyway... This experience pushed me to build a new box now with a real gpu, so I'll be in a better position to evaluate the alternative soon. For now though, at least running my crap hardware, Tridef makes s3d possible.


Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:20 pm
Profile
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
Posts: 4628
Welcome to the forums!

Check out M3GA at http://www.mtbs3d.com/m3ga

It would be great to see more DDD submissions. Just be sure to have "Virtual 3D" turned off because it doesn't follow the same QA standards.

Regards,
Neil

_________________
Image
- Nov. 23 & 24, 2014. Toronto, Ontario, Canada
- First major East Coast conference for immersive technologies like VR, AR, 3D, and more.
- Use "gettingimmersed" discount code to take $200 off registration (limited time, availability).
- Non-profit, government backed (Canada Media Fund, Ontario Centres of Excellence)


Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:34 pm
Profile WWW
One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:24 pm
Posts: 3
I noticed the lack of respect Virtual 3D gets here, but your post (was that automated?) drives the point home.

As said, soon I'll have better gear to assess things, but be clear one of the hardest things about doing this was the lack of information going in...

what kind of frame rates can I expect
what class video card (or cards!) do I really need
how much more does s3d bring to the party
...all, lacking

I'm not blaming. No one owes me a thing. Just, considering how ocd gamers are about image quality everywhere else, it's kinda wierd.

I've searched hard, and nuthing about image quality, while 2d gamers agonize over every pixil. Nothing about minimum fps, which is all that really matters to me. Nothing about how to maintain high standards for contrast and saturation when each eye (at best) sees the sceen for half as long.

I stupidly thought the URL you referred me to had game profiles and got all excited to see what others are doing... clearly it's time to go to bed, as it did not; merely a persons assessment, when everything I said in the op made it clear, you need to config the game for yourself.


Virtual 3d doesn't measure up.... well, your site your rules. You want to pretent something nice doesn't exist, suit yourself. Though, you probably want to ban me now, as when I get my new box up and run crisis.... got a feeling it's gonna by under Virutal 3D and I'm gonna tell.

peace


Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:03 am
Profile
Terrif-eying the Ladies!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:35 am
Posts: 893
Location: As far from Hold Display guys as possible!!! ^2
...So you have a DLP TV with that checkerboard sh/t. That's worse than native 720p, you take a big perfomance hit for rendering 1080p, and its throwing it away. ~Every second pixel is thrown away because its doing checkerboard 3d !!

Overtax your graphics card by rendering 1080p , then every second pixel is thrown away ( ~ 50% perfomance is lost), then the DLP TV itself isnt true fullhd but 960*1080, they use multiplexing trick to make / mimic FullHD . In the end, its nothing close to 720p native, and you took the perfomance hit.

-try a 720p DLP projector sometime, and forget about FullHD . Its as simple. You can even enable anti aliasing, you cant do that with FullHD , such is life :lol: .


1080p LCD/plasma might have twice the pixels of 720p , but DLP projectors have twice the fillfactor spec of LCD / plasma.

That means, the interpixel gaps (rows) take away less than 10% of screen area on a DLP beamer, while those take away 50% on an LCD screen. I can't see no goddamn pixel in 720p 3d, while! you would see pixels in 2d fullHD noAA, and it 'd hurt your eyes too(the aliasing). Check out what sony has to say.
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/07/16/sony-limiting-use-of-1080p-3d-in-ps3-games/
Quote:
The effects of this policy are probably unnoticeable to most gamers. Benson said that, in 3D, even trained computer graphics artists could barely tell the difference between the resolutions. Still, for all you pixel counters out there who obsess over "full HD 1080p," here's another bit of technical trivia for you to argue over.


-and just for your interest, Im tired of typing this, even though its one of life's big revelations to me ( how useless resolution is, when you compare things in stereo, its very similar to digital audio in fact). Im just tired. I made an exception because you sounded so desperate with that fullHD thing around your neck, whereas I can play ANY game with 160usd worth GTS250 SLI, and don't even plan to upgrade for a year, its THAT good, I have 120 / 60 fps in every game I play, Borderlands, Mass Effect2. Metro2033 is perfectly playable as well.

_________________
-Biased for 0 Gen HMD's to hell and back must be one hundred percent hell bent bias!


Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:32 am
Profile
Terrif-eying the Ladies!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:35 am
Posts: 893
Location: As far from Hold Display guys as possible!!! ^2
Look, Ive made some borderlands screenshots so you can have an idea how powerful 2x Gts250 is at 720p / noAA. You see the alias? Its maybe 2-3% annoyance once it moves. 720p + 3d are like bread & butter.

Check my sig for that .zip

Sometimes I enabled depth of field , sometimes not. Anyway , 720p owns.

You can see the fps dropping because intense geometry and player model ( someone joined to play coop with me)
75% gpu usage @ 40fps ~ this equals CPU bottleneck ;)

I talked with a professional about this, and he said that this is not an unreal engine 3 defect, but Borderlands was meant to use physx in the beginning. In the end they had to resort to CPU to do these things. Thats why this occurs. Im not so sure about this, but who knows.

And I'm at 3.6ghz only with this phenom2 (yet !!) . All I need is a better cooler and 4ghz+

_________________
-Biased for 0 Gen HMD's to hell and back must be one hundred percent hell bent bias!


Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:30 am
Profile
One Eyed Hopeful

Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:24 pm
Posts: 3
Thanks for the info, though it's kind of discouraging. I already pulled the trigger on the new box, and clearly the single gtx470 I ordered won't measure up to your sli 250's. Still, it'll blow away the wimpy laptop I'm using now.

As for my display, hey I was shocked it actually worked at all. It's been a great tv over the years, but honestly... a horrible pc display except for video playback where the lack of 1to1 pixel mapping isn't so apparent. Anyway, I'm not hung up on 1080p, my tv is--only enables 3d mode ONLY when fed a 1080p signal. There's no way I can replace it with a 61" display that outperforms it in 3d. I'm not rich, so just have to make do with what I have.

For what it's worth for anyone with a like Samsung dlp tv, here are some settings I'm using now with my crappy hardware:
TV (most settings disabled in 3d mode)
-Contrast 0
-Brightness 50

NVidia Settings
-Brightness 60
-Contract 82
-Gamma .86
-Digital vibrance 100

Portal
TriDef Menu
-3D
--Screen depth 28
--Percent In Front 20
-Options
--3D Object Detection Mode 2
-Window and Cursor
--Overscan 41

Mass Effect
TriDef Menu
-3D
--Screen depth 25
--Percent In Front 10
-Performance
--Virtual 3D ON (oh, but that can't happen here... how strange, in the real world on my pc it does)
-Window and Cursor
--Overscan 41

Prototype
TriDef Menu
-3D
--Screen depth 30
--Percent In Front 15
-Performance
-Options
--3D Object Detection Mode 3
-Window and Cursor
--Overscan 41


Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:18 am
Profile
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm
Posts: 4628
Hi Oram,

I'm a little puzzled by your message.


Quote:
I noticed the lack of respect Virtual 3D gets here, but your post (was that automated?) drives the point home.

As said, soon I'll have better gear to assess things, but be clear one of the hardest things about doing this was the lack of information going in...

what kind of frame rates can I expect
what class video card (or cards!) do I really need
how much more does s3d bring to the party
...all, lacking

I'm not blaming. No one owes me a thing. Just, considering how ocd gamers are about image quality everywhere else, it's kinda wierd.

I've searched hard, and nuthing about image quality, while 2d gamers agonize over every pixil. Nothing about minimum fps, which is all that really matters to me. Nothing about how to maintain high standards for contrast and saturation when each eye (at best) sees the sceen for half as long.

I stupidly thought the URL you referred me to had game profiles and got all excited to see what others are doing... clearly it's time to go to bed, as it did not; merely a persons assessment, when everything I said in the op made it clear, you need to config the game for yourself.


Virtual 3d doesn't measure up.... well, your site your rules. You want to pretent something nice doesn't exist, suit yourself. Though, you probably want to ban me now, as when I get my new box up and run crisis.... got a feeling it's gonna by under Virutal 3D and I'm gonna tell.

peace



My email wasn't automated. It's not about disrespecting virtual 3D, it just doesn't follow the same QA standards that traditional 3D does.

Traditional stereoscopic 3D requires two unique camera views. So if you open just one eye at a time, you don't just have two perspectives, the visual information in each eye is also very unique. This is the best 3D experience possible.

Virtual 3D, AKA 2D+Depth, only has one camera view. Like a stack of playing cards, it positions each object in a virtual 3D space based on the Z-buffer information, but the extra information from two different perspectives is missing. It's still a 3D experience, but it isn't as fulfilling. It also has very limited flexibility. However, it has the distinct advantage of not requiring as much performance overhead because a second camera view isn't needed.

Why do you think I'm going to ban you?

When you get your rig up and going, try the modes out and you will see what I'm talking about. Even DDD remarks:

Quote:
The Virtual 3-D mode is faster method of approximating a viewpoint shift based on the principles of image based rendering. There is a trade-off in terms of 3-D image quality, which may be noticable at the edges of objects but it is likely that you will get a significant increase in frame rate if you switch to Virtual 3-D mode.


This guide will give you a primer on how to adjust your stereoscopic 3D gaming experience:

http://www.mtbs3d.com/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=98

Regards,
Neil

_________________
Image
- Nov. 23 & 24, 2014. Toronto, Ontario, Canada
- First major East Coast conference for immersive technologies like VR, AR, 3D, and more.
- Use "gettingimmersed" discount code to take $200 off registration (limited time, availability).
- Non-profit, government backed (Canada Media Fund, Ontario Centres of Excellence)


Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:12 pm
Profile WWW
3D Angel Eyes (Moderator)
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 10927
Yeah, the "Virtual 3D" mode on the TriDef drivers are a pretty cool feature. I know it has allowed me to play Crysis on Very High settings with everything on with little to no performance hit. None of the other drivers can even handle Crysis at all with everything turned on. I know Neil doesn't want people using it for reviews, but feel free to talk about it. Its a great feature.

_________________
check my blog - cybereality.com


Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:31 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 8 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by STSoftware.