This is unfortunate. I don't think Samsung will bother with such a major firmware update, but they could probably make their own HDMI 1.4-compatible scaler/converter, like Mitsubishi did with their 3DC-1000 adapter for their older checkerboard-only DLP TVs.

The problem is, they would probably have to make changes to the underlying software platform, and it would be a change that is clearly avoided for consumer devices, where firmware updates are restricted to bugfixes for the most critical issues and never extend beyond the typical 2-3 year warranty period.

It it were some specialized professional hardware, some vendors will be willing to let developers completey rewrite the firmware several times during the life cycle of the product, which can be 5 to 10 or even more years. I've seen examples in PBX telephony, digital musical instruments and audio mixing/recording/processing gear, where firmware updates and associated hardware options could radically alter both the functionality of the device and the user interface, and can be compared to installing a new version of the software product. Except for bugfix releases, such expansion options and firmware updates are never free though, and many of the them come with a substantial cost which can amount to 10-15% of the list price of the unit.

Well, their 3D ready plasmas were never advertised as "Blu-ray 3D ready", "PS3 3D ready" or "HDMI 3D ready", since these specs were not finalized at the time of product release. These sets work with the PC just like they advertised, anything beyond that would be extending the advertised functionality of the product.

So I think Samsung would be better off with a scaling adapter box, if they care at all.

Khm, didn't know that. Sounds like a major design flaw to me.

Samsung doesn't give a f*ck about their old 3D plasmas.
They removed all stickers regarding the 3D capability, removed the features from their advertizing sheets, they even removed the displays from their official website on most localized translations. they do not inform the shops about the 3D feature, they even did not transmit the model numbers to nvidia or Ubisoft for their lists of compatible 3DTVs.

The PN42x450 and PN50x450 (A and B models) were just tech demos for the hardcore 3D enthusiasts and were never intended for mainstream use.
A French website had the opportunity to test these TVs when they first arrived in Europe (they were labelled PN42A476 at that time), The reviewers said clearly they were angry that it was extremely hard to find the TV since Samsung stopped advertizing the 3D feature before the TV was even released.

Once it abandonned the DLP market, Samsung changed it's strategy concerning 3D and took the exact same strategy as Sony. They do not want you to know there are already cheap 3DTVs on the market, they want you to buy their expansive 2DTVs and if you want some 3D, they want you to wait until they are ready with their next batch of new 3D ready models coming in 2010.

Yeah, talk about a design flaw, it was a major disaster. How could the engineers at Sony drop the ball like that. I was actually one of the unfortunate people that was affected by this. I had a Sony 16:9 rear projection HDTV that could only do 1080i and 480p. If it received a 720p signal, it would downconvert to 480p. I bought a PS3 at launch in November 2006, and it was extremely dissapointing to play games like Resistance: Fall of Man, and Motorstorm in downscaled 480p. The games looked horrible. I basically had to hook my PS3 up to my bedroom HDTV instead of the living room. I had a bedroom HDTV that could do 720p, and even though it was a very small display, with a crappy sound system, I had to play my games in there, because they looked like garbage on the living room set.

I'm amazed to this day that Sony hasn't added some type of hardware based scaling to new revisions of the PS3. I don't see why they couldn't just add in a hardware scaling chip to new PS3's, and basically not announce anything at all about it. Eventually, people would discover that the newest PS3's can also scale to different resolutions, and for people that could use such a thing, at least they could have the option of selling their current PS3, and then buying a newer revision that contains the hardware scaling chip.

Such an upgrade is not unheard of in the console world. Sony added progressive scan dvd playback when they came out with the PS2 slim. Microsoft added HDMI video output to the 360 a year or so after the 360 originally launched.

It's pretty ironic that Sony has basically screwed me over twice with the lack of hardware based scaling. First, I got screwed because I had a 1080i/480p only HDTV. Then, when I finally upgraded that old set and got a plasma, little did I know I was getting screwed again by the lack of a scaler, because I would have problems with future 3D usage. Oh well... crap happens.

Well, like I said, if Sony screws you, you screw Sony There is no better vote than voting with your money, and I heard the next Xbox will support stereo gaming right from the start (hint, hint).

I'm able to play Stereo games on the current Xbox right now. Because of the hardware scaling it has. I'm able to set my Xbox 360 to output the native resolution of the Samsung. So my 360 is set to 1360 x 768. This allows me to play Avatar and Invincible Tiger in stereo 3D.

The downside, is that I have no idea what the next Stereoscopic 3D game will be for the Xbox 360, while with Sony, they are making a big push into 3D gaming very, very soon. They showed off a bunch of stereo 3D games at CES, and have announced that they will have a firmware update allowing more Stereo 3D. Sony supposedly showed off Super Stardust HD in 3D, MLB 10: The Show in 3D, and a bunch of others. I haven't heard a single peep from the Xbox side of the coin about any Stereo 3D fare.

Wait a minute... You already know all of this, I forgot what thread I was posting in, lol....

And the upside, you are able to play stereo games

Seriously, though, a new Xbox has been rumoured to appear in 2010 to 2012 timeframe (though Microsoft denies that a new version is in the works) with support for stereoscopic 3D gaming and both backward AND FORWARD (!!!) compatibility for Xbox 360 games - which means all games released for the newer console will be playable on the older Xbox 360 (!!!), in addition to being able to play older Xbox 360 games on the newer console. The new version should offer more performance and better visual quality for newer games which are aware of the additional features, however some reviews suggest that the performance gains on the new Xbox will be quite mild and the console will be basically a slightly updated Xbox 360 with the addition of built-in Natal technology.

(Funny how news outlets have been telling their usual nonsense of how older games will be able to auto-magically gain better visuals on the new console; actually, that is quite the reverse of the intended meaning of forward compatibility, which actually implies that older system can accept data intended for the later system but will gracefully ignore any new features).

If this scalable programming model holds true, it won't be too hard to implement 3D stereo support for all new games on the platform, provided the Xenos (R500) GPU is updated with higher clocks and/or more shader blocks to enable additional performance needed for stereo and HDR rendering (maybe even to be a closer match to current mid-end GPUs like HD46xx (RV730)). Oh, sweet dreams... they never come true.

If that rumor is true about the new Xbox720 (or whatever) couldn't it be possible it uses that extra horsepower to make all existing Xbox360 games into stereoscopic 3D?

since all xbox360 games mostly use standard directx9-like API and vertex/pixel shaders written in HLSL, this is very possible
microsoft could make a 3d vision like solution below the directx9 layer of the new xbox.

According to comments made by Aaron Greenberg, it doesn't seem as though Microsoft is very interested at all in 3D.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/xbox-36 ... -microsoft

That article talks a little about it, but I read a different story in which he basically said that none of the Xbox gamers are really clamoring for 3D, and that they could provide 3D when the time comes, but that they don't really have any plans right now. Sony has tons of 3D stuff coming up, and it sounds like the Xbox 360 doesn't really have anything to look forward to. I heard about a 3D game called "Scrap Metal", but it turns out it's just an anaglyph game. Not what I'm looking for.

Yeah and I bet Nvidia didn't have any plans for 3D Surround Vision until they saw ATI's Eyefinity.

Sorry, I couldn't quite understand - do they support stereo 3D, or they do not?

If Microsoft doesn't want to bother with supporting stereo 3D at the API level, just provide the infrastructure - add HDMI 1.4 support and include a DisplayPort connector plug for those 120 Hz computer displays in a new revision of the hardware, and let consumers and developers decide.

I thought I specifically mentioned that forward compatibility implies older software can not take advantage of any new features it is unaware of, no? Oh, this deja-vu feeling... PS3's new 3D mode coming in 2010 to all existing games

No. Non. Nein. Na, ne, nee, nei, nie, nej, ei, не, ні, нет, жоқ, hayır, არ, ոչ, لا ,לא, 不, いいえ, 아니오. Absolutely negative, without any reservations.

Just like the PS3, Xbox 360 games are statically linked with the graphics libraries. There are are no user-updatable graphics componets or device drivers - the game executable contains all the necessary code which works with the fixed hardware. Providing a new functionality like stereo 3D support requires altering the game code and shipping a new game executable - which is a rare event reserved for fixing serious bugs. Etc.

actually, while the ps3 uses libgcm (with opengl es used rarely for non graphically intensive games), which is quite pedal to the metal and probably wont work with any graphics chip other than the RSX (modified 7800gtx from nvidia), xbox's libraries are pretty much dynamic and sort-of dx9 compatible. so if you do pop in a disc from a 360 into the 720, it could provide a wrapper translating the dx9 calls to dx10 (or whatever api they choose to support as native on the 720), while doing stereoscopy if required

Technically, it doesn't differ much from static code, since the libraries are shipped with the game executable; they are still technically middleware, not updatable OS components.

That would require porting pretty major stuff from Windows NT architecture, things like Session Manager Application Compatibility Shims, and developing new stuff like Direct3D Stereo Compatibility profiles (which neither ATI nor Microsoft have any experience with). The OS kernel is said to only occupy 150 Kilobytes of memory on the Xbox, so I don't really see Microsoft expanding it to a dozen megabyte monster just for revitalizing some older games.

(Note that "Xbox emulation" on the Xbox 360 has nothing to do with technologies in the Application Compatibility Toolkit - the downloadable "emulation profiles" are just game executables re-compiled by hand to work on the PowerPC architecture of the new Xbox, no major features are added to the game.)

A compatibility mode in the GPU hardware that offers better resolution and image quality in an application transparent way is a possibility, but user interface and 2D graphics intended for 720p display wouldn't probably scale too well in a higher-resolution display. It's time to switch to resolution-independed, multi-language 2D interfaces like Direct2D/DirectWrite, and that's where I would put engineering resources. There's only so much you can do about auto-magically re-engineering older games on-the-fly.

Sounds like you are right (not that I doubt it before); quoting from this article "CNET's 3D TV FAQ" #8 http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10434346-1.html

Wow, I absolutely love my Samsung, but if this is the way they want to treat their customers, I won't purchase another one. Looks like I'm going back to the Mitsubishi camp my next go around.

My parents plan on buying a new 3D display this summer, and they current have a Mits HD CRT-RPTV. They like my Sammy DLP, but I'm going to tell them to stick to Mits. Hopefully Mits will offer more DLPs this year. A 240hz model would be nice.