If you missed it, check out part one of our interview with Caitlin Burns, Transmedia Producer for Starlight Runner Entertainment. Caitlin's career has featured work on such franchises as Avatar, The Pirates of the Caribbean, Tron Legacy, Halo, and more. Her latest project is a 3D broadcast series called Battle Castle on The History Channel.
As a bonus, today's interview also features Maija Leivo, Series Producer for Battle Castle. Maija will share even more detail about the 3D aspects of the series. Grab hold of your swords, shields, and pitchforks, fellow MTBS citizens - it's time to talk about Battle Castle!
If you will forgive the pun, I understand you are going to go Medieval on our as*. What is Battle Castle and how can people see it?
Battle Castle is a documentary series that is on History Channel in Canada; it is 6 episodes of 3-D ready (but still 2-D enjoyable) Castles come to life. Describing the building, siege and battle for these magnificent fortresses, Medieval Media Inc. is bringing to life the events that made these fortresses legendary. By using modern research, not only will the audience see the architecture, land and events (like some really cool explorations of undermining), but they will see some viscerally powerful stories from the lives of historical figures.
Battle Castle is now airing in Canada on History Television. It will be broadcast in the UK later this spring and distribution is through BBC Worldwide. We’ve heard from lots of our fans in other countries and we will be announcing airdates in more territories soon.
Since I’m based in New York, I have to make do with the interactive website at battlecastle.tv, the online (tablet friendly) game Masters of Constantinople (www.mastersofconstantinople.com), and the 3-D animated web videos that compliment each full episode. Since I live in New York, I can get online and play all the games, play around on battlecastle.tv and watch the fabulous motion videos, but I have to wait for the show here in the United States.
Did you have a personal interest in medieval history before getting involved with Battle Castle? What were you and your team trying to accomplish when crafting the series?
I’ve always been fascinated by history and mythology, and there are plenty of castles and historical figures that have become legendary. From the Teutonic Knights in Poland to King John and King Richard in England, these are people who have become myths in their own right and learning about their real histories, the people and places they built and fought over and lived in - it’s fascinating.
With Battle Castle, we brought together a very strong effort to be historically accurate on all platforms, bringing in Dan Snow and building from his phenomenal expertise, and married that to the really powerful stories that already existed in these castles to bring exciting narratives to life with modern techniques to visualize the Medieval world.
I understand that each episode focuses on a separate castle and story. Where are the castles located, and what made them so different from each other that each could get their own episode?
The six castles are located throughout Europe and the Holy Land. As far north as Wales, with Conwy Castle and all the way down to Crac des Chevaliers in modern Syria.
They each represent different styles of Castle-building and highlight different eras in the grand tapestry of Medieval Castles. Each also gives a strong, different viewpoint into the motivations and reasonings why these fortresses were built and why their defense was of tantamount importance. Sometimes a castle is just the best possible example of a type of architecture, but mostly, a historical figure or an amazing event like the Battle of Tannenberg really captivated the creators.
Which castle or episode was the most interesting to you, and why?
I was personally very interested in Malbork, which is in modern-day Poland. I’ve always had an interest in secret societies and the great holy orders of the Middle Ages - the Teutonic Knights being one. The events that surround the Battle of Tannenberg and the expansion into that part of Europe is so rich with secrets, plots and double crosses that sometimes a castle wall isn’t quite enough to hold your enemies at bay.
Maija, as the Series Producer of Battle Castle, I understand you can share some details about the 3D aspect of the series. I think a big draw is that it has a stereoscopic 3D version. How many episodes are in 3D, and were they actually shot in 3D, or is this a 2D/3D conversion?
One episode, Battle Castle: Dover was shot completely in 3D, although we shot some footage at every castle with our stereoscopic gear. This material is shot in 3D. Very little of our material is converted.
For interested readers (and 3D viewers), what will they get out of the series in 3D that they wouldn't in 2D? What gets added to the experience - if anything?
Castles lend themselves beautifully to a three-dimensional worldview. Inherently, castles are about defense in depth. Layers make them better. That is also true of seeing the castles in 3D. In a way, a 3D film is even better than being there.
Because of the nature of a documentary storytelling, we draw your eyes to a particular feature and explain it. You could be there yourself, but without the informational context, you may not even know what you are looking at, or its military function.
When will the 3D versions of Battle Castle see the light of day, and will they be viewable by true 3D Ready HDTVs and displays, or be limited to anaglyph formats?
We are currently working with our 3D broadcast partners to bring a 3D version of Battle Castle to public viewing. It is intended for 3D ready televisions and displays. Those are the formats that best present the images we have created.
In the meantime we offer some of these images and footage in anaglyph to inspire the general public about the potential of this technology to change the way we see the world.
Cailtin, you mentioned a video game component to Battle Castle. How did you use video games as an educational tool?
We knew that Battle Castle is more than a TV Series and that the research and history of these castles would be able to fill more than six hours of television - we wanted to give the audience several ways to explore the world of Battle Castle.
Knowing that there is a lot of really great history and stories, the browser-based and tablet compatible Masters of Constantinople is a fictional tale that allows the player to learn about the castles as well as dive deeper into Medieval history. This compliments the episodes and allows audiences (in Canada and abroad) to weave their way through history and enter into the Battle Castle.
While I know these games are (sadly) not in stereoscopic 3D, we are moving to a future of stereoscopic 3D tablets, smartphones, and desktop monitors. While these releases may not be the perfect fit, how would you describe the ultimate medieval 3D gaming experience?
It’s hard to pick one experience that would be the “ideal” game to encompass all of medieval history. I personally love an RTS where I can build and develop a kingdom, but I also would really love to play a first-person shooter where I had to follow a liege on a campaign with thrilling battles. There are so many different kinds of games that can be improved with the beautiful animation, graphics and the lushness that 3-D production can provide.
Of course, if I had to make something up to answer, I’ll go for the gusto. I’d love a sandbox RPG where I can explore the Crusades from the point of view of either Europeans or Islamists, and get to explore the contested lands in battle, diplomacy and constantly shifting borders. The history is lush, the castles are incredible, and the conflicts are epic.
At last year's 3D Entertainment Summit, James Cameron remarked that he thought the 3D settings for Avatar were a little too modest, and he should have taken things further. A big criticism of 2D/3D conversions amongst our members is that the 3D results tend to be very flat with hairline levels of separation between the left and right view - this has grown true of natively shot 3D movies as well. You continue to work with different types of 3D content - do you think 3D filmmakers and game developers need to throw out the rulebook and take bigger visual risks? Why or why not?
Well, having gotten a chance to look at the sheer breadth of design and detail that went into Avatar, I know that there was a profound amount of work on the plants, animals, environment and tech, including the ship that took humans from Earth to Pandora - it’s easier to see how the limitation of only showing the most important parts of the story can feel a bit modest. Every blade of grass on Pandora was an original creation and the reality is that most of those components only got a few seconds of screen time. I’m confident that in the sequels, Cameron and his design team will be taking the world further, and allowing for an even more epic scope of visuals.
What sometimes bothers me in movies is that 3-D forces my perspective. Having played plenty of 3-D console games, I’m spoiled enough to want to explore the screen and follow my eyes where they want to go rather than where the camera focuses the view. I think that there’s a lot that can be learned between the two media, but there’s a reality that these issues have been what have fueled artistic development from time immemorial. The idea that there’s a clear rulebook for new technology and filmmaking or game making is somewhat funny when you think just how young all these art forms are. If there is one, it should be treated more as “guidelines” because every story and every creation will be a new innovation on the existing forms in new ways.
Last question for you! You've probably seen a lot of stories cross your desk for both movies and video games. Which would you have liked to see in 3D, and why?
There are a lot of smaller projects that I would have loved to see explored in 3D and in more stereoscopic methods. I feel like the projects that I have worked on that have been in 3-D have reasons to be. The creators largely intended to show their worlds in these ways and have considered how to add the magic of the technology with the spell their story weaves.
I would love to see some of the more living-history and real world pieces get the 3-D treatment. I would love to walk around a turn of the century town, or be able to solve a mystery that allows me to interface with characters in their presence, to look behind their backs and see if their fingers are crossed. All the little nuances that one can get from a more theatrical experience in real life, that can be explored now that 3-D is becoming more familiar a tool to creators in all industries. 3-D can allow you to explore a world that defies your experience or imagination in a way that is almost real, I can’t wait to see what world, real or imagined, crosses my path next.
Today we have an indepth interview with Caitlin Burns, Transmedia Producer for Starlight Entertainment. Her career has featured work on such franchises as Avatar, The Pirates of the Caribbean, Tron Legacy, Halo, and more. Her latest project is a 3D broadcast series called Battle Castle on The History Channel. It's regularly promoted that what ultimately makes or breaks 3D in both cinema and gaming is the story...so who better to share their insights on MTBS than a professional story writer?
Tell us about Starlight Runner Entertainment. What do you guys do?
Starlight Runner Entertainment is a New York-based entertainment studio that specializes in transmedia development and production. We do original work and co-productions internationally, but we’re most well known for our work with major feature film and game franchises. Our job is to make sure that the story you see in the theatre, on your game console, on TV, in a book, or a comic are each different from one another, and that they all fit together so they make sense and add something to the story world.
It's easy to assume that when you watch a movie like Avatar or Tron Legacy, there is a central story to follow, and that's it. Is there more to this storytelling than meets the eye? Please elaborate.
The story is key. It’s fairly simple to understand, the strongest narratives for this kind of work have broad story worlds, so not only is there the story you see for 90 minutes onscreen, there is a past, present and future in this world. There is a richness to the narrative that understands that when someone is out of the audience’s field of vision, they have stories of their own. There are a variety of places where these characters have been before a player picks up a controller and guides them through a story.
These are all fairly comprehensible concepts. They have to be or else they wouldn’t be enjoyable. Telling a story well in a specific medium is an incredible feat, it’s what makes a movie or a game or a novel fantastic, it’s why we want to watch or play or read them to begin with. Once you add those things together and add more and more creative artists into the mix, the storyworlds get very complex very quickly, so you need someone like a transmedia producer to have their eye on the Canon – the core truth, the themes, the messages, the meaning of this story world– so that everyone working in the story world understands what it’s about at its core, and can hear what everyone else is working on and how they can create stories in that framework.
So let's say you have this "story canon" to work with. What's your role in managing this? What materials do you have to work with?
The first step is always going as close to the source of the creative vision as possible. That means speaking with the visionaries that created the story world to begin with, whether that’s James Cameron or the core creatives at Bungie, or the people who are working on set to create something wild and new at the moment.
We have to sit (or often run around next to them) and understand why this world, this narrative, has captured their attention. Once we have a sense of that, we can articulate the themes, messages, aspirations and the basic chronology of the story world as we know it. We start in a platform-neutral space so we’re just talking about the story, and create robust resource guides called Mythologies that cover the encyclopedic Canon of each world.
From there, we look at how these stories are being told: film, games, 3-D, 2-D, and where they’re going (film + games, novel + comics, etc…) - and figure out how these stories branch from one another, how they all fit together, and how they can allow for the best storytelling, and most engaging experiences possible.
It all really does come back to understanding that core essence of the story. You can work with an artist who is expert in creating specific kinds of games, or animation, or entirely new experimental creations and learn how those processes work, and know the end-product will be amazing - if you both can talk about the story, what its about and why you’re telling it. If you’re coming from the other direction, where you have this phenomenal tech, but don’t know why you want to use it and have no idea what your story is about, it’s a lot harder to get an amazing piece of work out in the end.
Can you elaborate on some of the franchises you have participated with in this manner?
Starlight Runner has gotten a chance to do this work for a variety of really fantastic franchises, including Pirates of the Caribbean, Fairies, and Tron Legacy for The Walt Disney Company, James Cameron’s Avatar for Twentieth Century Fox and Lightstorm, Halo for Microsoft, The Happiness Factory for The Coca-Cola Company, and Transformers for Hasbro. As well as a number of others including Sony, Showtime, Scholastic, and other groups more focused on documentary or social issue campaigns.
These projects are always very different - even stories that on the surface might seem similar have a lot of difference when you break them down to their core themes and internal cosmologies.
Each project also plays out differently in terms of where the stories go. As most people who play video games know, there are a lot of different kinds of games: a first person shooter is very different from an RPG. While they often get lumped into the “games” category, more casual tablet or online games may be a better fit for one story or company than licensing a first person shooter. Combine those pieces with Toys, Consumer Products, Marketing, ARGs, Advertising, Publishing, and the need to tailor stories to International Markets and the need to understand what the story means first gets immediately important to hundreds of different people. Having a group whose job it is to help answer questions from all those groups about the story becomes vital. Let’s face it, the person making the movie or producing the game has their hands full doing just that.
The obvious application I could see for this is a movie being transitioned to a video game format. So, Avatar had Avatar: The Game, and Tron Legacy had Tron Evolution. What experience have you had with transitioning movies to video games, and how has this impacted your story telling process? What challenges have you run into?
The biggest challenge with the Film to Video Game or the Video Game to Film transition is that while they can often be treated intellectually like the same kind of production, they have very different production processes. It’s very rare to find people who are truly experienced in both methods of production.
The experience of sitting and watching a film versus playing a game are hugely different, and the way stories play out in both mediums is also quite different.
Most people who have played licensed video games of movies have experienced a bit of this translation issue, where 1) you’re playing a story you’ve seen before in the movie, and 2) it’s not really getting you excited about the gameplay because you’re tripping over the movie’s story - or the movie’s story doesn’t seem to fit with the amount of action the game is trying to place into the experience.
The good news is that more and more people recognize this as problematic in both the film and game industries. One of the big ways this is being corrected is through transmedia storytelling: creating stories in the story world that fit around films but are more suited for the needs of gameplay and that sort of “active experience”. In the next few years these will be rolling out, it takes longer for new games to be created since games take longer than films to produce, and I think that people will be pleasantly surprised by the results.
I understand you worked on the Halo game for Microsoft. Do tell! What was your role with this?
We were brought in as Transmedia Producers after Halo 3 to help Microsoft make sense of this sprawling fantastic 100,300-year story world that had been created centering on Master Chief’s discovery of the Halo Installations.
Microsoft was already in production on a number of different platforms and game styles with a number of different groups. Obviously Bungie, publishing houses, comic book groups… Microsoft was in the middle of creating 343 Industries to oversee them all.
Microsoft came to us to help consolidate and understand the full breadth of their Canon and to help strategize their seven year plan to help them get to Halo 4 that was recently announced. As a franchise with such great creative energy and such effusive fan and audience interaction, everyone involved wanted to make sure that the story was satisfying and made sense in the phenomenal universe that had already been created and to build from that point of understanding.
I think the results have been phenomenal. Halo Reach brought me to tears and I really enjoy the novels - both the Forerunner Saga and the others created to expand the Halo Universe.
For years, it has been argued that 3D is a tool for story telling, and it's not just about the technology. Story this, and story that. As a professional storyteller, has 3D impacted the way you do your job? How so?
When one approaches a story, it’s very necessary to understand how you’re telling that story. This may seem like a ridiculously obvious statement but as I’ve mentioned before, one type of story cannot fit comfortably on every media. Even within media, the experiences can vary quite widely.
If you’re accustomed to writing for a medium where your audience has no chance to explore, or you’re accustomed to writing for theatre where your characters exist only in a box, 3-D may be a bit of a leap from your writing or producing experience.
The reality is that 3-D adds a layer of complexity to how you think about executing your story. If you are creating a movie with a clear, single plot, you’ll be able to use forced perspective to tell your story visually in new ways. If you’re creating a sandbox game where the player can now explore a world in 3-D, there are a lot more layers of story to add in. Your core story will be good or bad on its own, and the ability to execute the specific narratives that an audience will experience through 3-D is the challenge.
For me, understanding and learning about 3-D production and how story points can be expanded in 3-D versus 2-D is part of the job. As a transmedia producer, one has to take an interest in why each media is different. What are the strengths of doing this story in 3-D, and making strong, intelligent arguments one way or another? It’s not harder to write or create stories for 3-D, but it requires an understanding of how it will affect the end experience.
Not every story is well suited for every medium, and shoehorning a story into 3-D because it’s nifty isn’t always the best idea - but when creators start out with 3-D in mind, the story and the presentation can fit together beautifully in a way no other technique provides.
We will be hearing more from Caitlin shortly! The next piece will be about Battle Castle, its 3D availability, and yes...it has a video game component too.